Comments for divinity IV

VIEW:412 DATA:2020-03-20

Wander Souza N03 / 06/2014
+ Rubens Caputo Your answer is very fallacious. What does pride not do, huh?
If Yhwh is not a proper name for the God of Israel it is simple to prove. Show me another application that was made of the same word by the people of Israel. An isolated application of YHWH to something. Did the people use that word to refer to something else ??? (And look that this would not prove, because there are proper names with other applications lol)
The definition of proper name comes from us, not from the people of Israel. Just because there is no classification does it mean that the difference does not exist? There was no classification of species either, and that is why the bat was cataloged as a bird, but that is not why we say that the bible was wrong, but that it just did not have the correct classification at the time. In history, descriptive systems did not always exist, but we who have knowledge can apply it where it is clearly applicable. (And the Israelites have already classified it very well, only in giving a great distinction of the name, distancing it from the other generic and descriptive ones, and finally failing to pronounce it for fear of breaking a commandment)
"You spoke of the Ten Commandments so do you keep the Sabbath?" I used the 10 commandments as a reference, because God doesn't change. If it is in the bible it is for our instruction. (Romans 15: 4) I may as well take advantage of and valuable information from the laws given to the Israelite people, without being under the law.
The article before proper name says it all. You let out another fallacy. "the man went home" is a completely different situation to be described. "The proper name of God" is a definition of the name of God. Soon after, other "names" are mentioned. This was described from the beginning with the article "O", which undoubtedly distinguished it from the other names. If other proper names existed, the article would inform. And the correct thing would be to start with "One" of the proper names of the God of Israel. But the article knows that there is only one name. "Most High", "God of hosts", and "Zealous" were never proper names. I am tired of saying that any half-brain knows this. And you still talk about childishness? Friend, please. lol
The name YHWH is really complete, because that's all that God assigned to himself, as his own name. Now you're going to find some text in the bible to counter this. rs Friend, you don't read the bible in search of the truth, you read the bible in search of refutations to what goes against your ideas. For that, it uses all kinds of strategies, from texts more deeply analyzed (When it suits you), to fallacious analyzes of Portuguese. That way he will always come back trying to contest a reality.
Whether you like it or not, YHWH has been and has been since biblical days the only proper and personal name that identifies the biblical God. You can kick as much as you want that will not change that reality. When someone wants to create a strange doctrine, do what you are doing, the bible goes looking for reasoning of all kinds to counter a clear idea, and that's it and that's it. I understand that you defend your personal vision, but as I said before, it is far from reality.
Rubens Caputo 06/03/2014
+ Wander Souza N
, far from reality. You said of cataloging bat. Who said the scientist is cataloging correctly? And what's in the Bible is wrong?
I'll tell you about your first name. What is a first name?
A proper name is a noun that distinguishes and identifies something in a specific way, such as a person, a place or a geographical entity.
Proper names must be written in capital letters.
In Hebrew Shêm is not a noun, it is one that is an infinitive, gerund or participle of the verb, or a noun, in the case of YHWH, we have an article and a verb with an unusual conjugation. The eternal is not used in anything else because the term "the eternal", would not fit anyone but the angel of the Lord. But HWH exists in several other places. The article O (Y) + exist (HWH), does not exist in any reference except to the angel of the Lord.
The name (shem) in Hebrew has no capital letters. There is no God and God, there is only God. There is no Moses, there is "moshe", "waters out". So by grammatical rules (shêm) is not a proper name.
Wander Souza N03 / 06/2014
+ Rubens Caputo Yes, but if you yourself say that there was no such concept of proper name at that time, then how can you want to apply such grammatical rules to disqualify?
There are characteristics that distinguish the name "YHWH" as being the proper name, this goes beyond grammatical rules of the Hebrew language.
"The name (shem) in Hebrew has no capital letters."
Never have ? So how do we know when to apply the rule? By looking at where it would fit, it's obvious. By logic, and translation criteria.
It is a reality, no matter how much you juggle grammatical rules, to try to change that and what else to elaborate.
"Jehovah is the name of God, in its Portuguese form, with syntactic loss of the letter h (ie, because it comes from Jehovah), from the Hebrew יְהֹוָה, a vocalization of Tetragrammaton (" Tetragram ") יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible. "
Preface to the New American Standard Bible
Still About YHWH:
"Noteworthy, too, is the importance attached to their names in the Hebrew Scriptures and among Semitic peoples. Professor GT Manley indicates:“ A study of the word 'name' in the V [elho] T [estamento] reveals how much this word means in Hebrew The name is not a simple label, but it is representative of the true personality of the person to whom it belongs ... When a person puts his 'name' on one thing or another person, he comes under his influence and protection . ” - New Bible Dictionary, edited by JD Douglas, 1985, p. 430; compare this with A. Cohen's 4 Everyman's Talmud, 1949, p. 24; "
"In articles on Jehovah, The Imperial Bible-Dictionary beautifully illustrates the difference between ʼElo · hím (God) and Jehovah. Regarding the name Jehovah, he says:“ It is, everywhere, a proper name , indicating the personal God, and only him, whereas Elohim assumes more the character of a common noun, indicating, in general, indeed the Supreme, but not necessarily or uniformly ... The Hebrew may say the Elohim, the true God, against all false gods; but he never says Jehovah, for Jehovah is only the name of the true God. "
https://archive.org/details/theimperialbible01unknuoft
"He says, again and again, my God..; But never my Jehovah, because when he says my God, he means Jehovah. He speaks of the God of Israel, but never of the Jehovah of Israel, because there is no other Jehovah He speaks of the living God, never more of the living Jehovah, for he can only conceive of Jehovah as being alive. ” - Edited by P. Fairbairn, London, 1874, Vol. I, p. 856. "
"A proper name is a noun that distinguishes and identifies something in a specific way, such as a person, a place or a geographical entity."
I do not need to say anything more.
Rubens Caputo 03/06/2014
There is no "my eternal", in the same way that several verses have "my god", without having the word mine, and put "God", without having a capital letter.
And more Yehova, it has my term. Y means mine. If you read the article you sent, you will see that Y has the term mine. My eternal. YehovaY, my eternal mine, is redundant. Jesus once said "Eli Eli," (my God, my God), Every time Yehova speaks, he is saying my eternal. I don't like this concept of Y, and I use y as the. When speaking my God speaks if elohimy, so yehova and elohimy. My eternal, and my god.
In the text you sent.
"I am who am" appears to refer to "I will be with thee" of v. 12; both texts seems to be alluded to in Os., i, 9, "I will not be yours". But if this be true, "I am who am" must be considered as an ellipse: "I am who am with you", or "I am who am faithful to my promises". This is harsh enough;
As the personal condition (Y) can generate eternal with you, because the eternal verb is conjugated in a redundant form. Eternal mine, or Eternity with me. Eternity mine. So I prefer to use y = o, because putting o in the conjugated verb is better understandable. But yehova is the same form of elohimy.
Rubens Caputo 03/06/2014
There is no capital letters, because in Hebrew there are no capital letters. Current grammatical rules are not used in ancient writings. So there is no proper name in old names. Because it doesn't have the grammatical class for that. Apostrophe, vocative, and other rules do not exist. Ellipse, silepse and others.
So knowing that shêm is a milestone, signature, and that name does not use current grammatical rules, then it is not a proper name, because it does not follow the rules of proper name.
Rubens Caputo 06/03/2014
+ Wander Souza N, to show that yehova is the same y as elohimy, I will show you the words.
יהוה
yehova - my eternal
אלי
(ely) my God
אלהי
(elohym) my God
In this context, it is not known what God meant is that the eternal is in me. Or I'm from the eternal. It is very difficult to know what God is trying to say.
or is the man his or is he in the man?
Wander Souza N04 / 06/2014
+ Rubens Caputo You subtly try to mischaracterize the content of the proper name when treating by "the eternal". The meaning of the name reveals something about YHWH, but it is clear that for us, the name is primarily intended for distinction. We do not say "the eternal", back and forth, the name YHWH (Jehova, Yahweh, or Yahweh etc). It is very clear in the scriptures from the frequency of use that this was a name that was different from the others, there is no point in coming up with arguments based on grammatical rules. In addition to being something suspicious, decide through this, and not by observable characteristics of the name. Besides, it is something that curiously only you have the knowledge.
And yes, you said something that I should have played before, if there are no upper and lower case letters to determine your first name, then how can you tell if it is or not? In the same way that this rule will not serve to prove, it will also not serve to the contrary. But that does not mean that a proper name did not exist to the point of being defined in the future. The strong distinction of the name, in all aspects you are already tired of knowing, is solid evidence that it is the proper name that God has assigned.
Fact 1: The only personal and really proper name without application to anything other than YHWH itself. (I'm saying that the name is not used for anything else, understand that) It is used frequently, more often than any other of its supposed names. It also clearly shows that it is a personal distinguishing name, not a mere title.
“The YHWH Tetragrammath occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew text of the Kittel Hebrew Bible (BHK) and the Stuttgartensia Hebrew Bible (BHS). The frequency at which the Tetragrammaton appears attests to its importance. Its use in all Scriptures goes far beyond that of any title names, such as "Sovereign Lord (in Heb. Adhonai)", "the [True] Lord" (in Heb. Ha Adhóhn), Most High (in Heb. Elyón ) "the [True] God" (Hebrew Ha Haohim) and "God"
What is a proper noun?
Proper Noun
Word that designates a unique, specific being, differentiating it from the rest of the group. It is usually capitalized. For example, São Paulo is the proper name of a city, that is, it specifies a being within a group that is called by the common noun city. They indicate a name, be it of a place, a living being or a work. The study of these is called Onomastics.
Ex:
• Ana,
• Rex,
• Lisbon,
• São Paulo,
• Salvador,
• Mateus,
• Luis,
• Talita,
• Natanael.
http://www.infoescola.com/portugues/substantivo-comum-e-proprio/
ATTENTION: I am not trying to apply Portuguese rules in the Hebrew text, but simply demonstrating that YHWH fits the observable characteristics of a proper name.
Yhwh is: "Word that designates a unique, specific being, differentiating it from the rest of the group."
“For example, São Paulo is the proper name of a city, that is, it specifies a being within a group that is called by the common noun city.”
Yhwh is the name that distinguishes the biblical God. Nothing prevents another religion that strangers the bible, creates its God, and applies titles such as "very high", "God of hosts" and all those other titles. But YHWH, is the name of the God of the Bible, and will never be incorporated into another creed, because it is the distinguishing name of such a God.
I am not applying the rules of Portuguese, just demonstrating the obvious.
Fact 2: The name YHWH, is the name with which God signed the 10 commandments, and was therefore abandoned by his people for the exaggerated fear of violating one of the commandments. If that were not really the name of God, the only one he was referring to, would no servant of God have undone that mistake? To date, no one has commented on the matter! Prophets passed by, Jesus himself, son of God, passed by, and said nothing about it. It was necessary to remove the name of most Bibles, but no one clarified the mistake ??? It takes a lot of willpower to match the name to the other generics and titles given this fact.
Fact 3: Are the greatest scholars and theologians all wrong? Why do theologians and scholars give importance to the name, and differentiate it from others? Have you tried to know?
Note: I will be honest and say that I cannot argue with you by analyzing words more deeply, because I have no knowledge in this area. But it is clear, that you are juggling to prove the improbable, you don't have to be a genius to realize this.
A fact is a fact. It is different from contesting the translation of a word, or a verse, or whether that text was an insertion. It is clear to everyone that YHWH is the proper name of the God of Israel. There is a lot of evidence, and the name clearly stands out from the rest. But there are the most varied strange doctrines that arose in human heads, why not one that says that he doesn't have that name, that it is just another title like the others?
See again the reality of the fact:
The Catholic Encyclopedia [1913, Vol. VIII, p. 329] says: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament; therefore, the Jews called it the name par excellence, the great name, the unique name. ”
"You shall not take the name of YHWH, your God, in vain, for YHWH will not consider unpunished anyone who takes his name in vain." Exodus 20: 7
Starting from the point where the Jews certainly knew the God they worshiped, and that was the God who guided them, YHWH, this is a strong indication that it is the distinctive personal name, which the living God applied.
Isaiah 42: 8
"I am Jehovah ... THIS IS MY NAME"
"Holy Bible translated by Matos Soares (8th edition): A footnote commentary on Exodus 6: 3 says:“ My name Adonai. Hebrew text says: My name Yahweh or Jehovah. Adonai is how the Hebrews read so as not to pronounce the ineffable name Jehovah. ”
"Holy Bible, translation by Antônio P. de Figueiredo, Barsa Edition: A footnote on Exodus 3:14 says:" He who is: in Hebrew YHVH, which must be pronounced Yahweh, became God's proper name . ” About Exodus 6: 3 it says: "My name Adonai: the original text bears 'Yahweh'... However, the Jews later on, no longer pronounced it, for fear of enunciating it in vain, but said in its place 'Adonai', ie 'my Lord'. ”
"Jehovah (YHWH)
[causative form, in the imperfect, of the Hebrew verb ha • wáh (to become; to become); meaning:" He Causes to Become "].
God's personal name. (Isa 42: 8; 54: 5) Although the Scriptures designate it by descriptive titles, such as "God", "Sovereign Lord", "Creator", "Father", "the Almighty" and "the Most High", his personality and attributes - who and what He is - are fully summarized and expressed only by this personal name. - Ps 83:18. ”
“A son was also born to Sete, whom he named Enos: it was at that time that men began to call on the name of Jehovah.”
Genesis 4:26
http://www.bibliaonline.com.br/tb/gn/4
"It will happen that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be released; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem will be those who escape, as I said Jehovah, and among the survivors those whom Jehovah calls. "
Joel 2:

Nothing better than letting the bible speak! If the bible says that we should call on the name of YHWH, who am I to say otherwise, and replace that name with "Lord".
Rubens Caputo 06/04/2014
+ Wander Souza N
I will give just one analysis.
"call on the name of Jehovah" and
"call on the name Jehovah"
Since Jehovah does not exist, there is YHWH or (eternal, existing, I am).
There is a clear difference in saying the name of God, and invoking the name God. Do you know why?
Because Shêm is a reference, signature, or milestone. So YHWH cannot be a proper name if it were we would use the name as a proper subject. Name YHWH, not name of YHWH. See that speaking Name of YHWH, refers to another name. Any landmark that defines God is God's name. Hence the Name of YHWH, not the Name YHWH.
So Name of God, Name of YHWH, Name of the Lord. They are the same constructions.
Wander Souza N04 / 06/2014
+ Rubens Caputo
Well, I'll give just one example:
When someone says:
"It will happen that everyone who invokes the name of Rubens caputo will be released"
I must conclude that Rubens Caputo has other names besides that? Does the application of the preposition "de" compel this? Of course not!
"So Name of God, Name of YHWH, Name of the Lord." This is your opinion, and we know that not only me, but many people disagree with it.
Now, as I don't want to spend the rest of my life here, and I don't think you do either, I invite you to end this discussion. We have already explained what we believe and believe to be the truth, and we are not going anywhere. So if you want you can leave your final comments. Good Morning.
Rubens Caputo 06/04/2014
Everything after Shêm designates the exposed individual, so all words related to Shêm are names, which designate the being indicated in Shêm. There are people who call Linda, Bela, and nouns of the most varied. When the Bible mentions other names for God, we must believe it. And every given name is God's name. There is no Jehovah, because there is no J, Yehová, they ate / r / de ho, / ro /, the phoneme Ye / ie /, would never be / ge /. Therefore, Jehovah is a human invention, different from the translation of Yehová = "The eternal", or "my eternal", as my God. elohymi, or Eli. So whoever considers that there is only one name for God, has to cancel hundreds of verses and totally change the significance of the word Shêm, that is, they have to invent a new non-Biblical religion. As many churches do.
Wander SouzaN04 / 06/2014
+ Rubens Caputo Ok, as I said, this is completely your doctrine. it is very clear to everyone that the personal name God has given is YHWH. This is a fact.
Until another day!

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